Episode 5 - True Believer

**gossi** · **Episode 5 - True Believer -** 03-14-2009, 03:17 PM

Thoughts! I loved it.

beenthere · 03-14-2009, 04:10 PM

I'm not exactly well versed in the Bible (though I've heard of Nebukadnezar before watching The Matrix) but were these quotes genuine or "made up"?

**gossi** · 03-14-2009, 04:42 PM

I only knew Nebukadnezar from The Matrix, hee.

cyclingroo · 03-14-2009, 06:18 PM

Nebuchadnezzar was the king of Babylon that was spoken of in the Book of Daniel. The story of Hananiah (Shadrach), Mishael (Meshach), and Azariah (Abednego) is found in Daniel 3.

But Daniel is not the only biblical source for this Dollhouse episode. Most of the biblical references relate to the Book of Esther which tells the story of a young Jewish girl, her family and their struggles while being held in captivity by Ahasuerus (rendered in Greek as Xerxes), the erstwhile king of Persia. There is a great deal of controversy about the book and who the historical figures were, but the basic story is one of redemption through perseverance and through faith. The story is celebrated in the spring festival of Purim.

Matt Holck · 03-14-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclingroo

Nebuchadnezzar was the king of Babylon that was spoken of in the Book of Daniel.

In the bible, god toppled the tower
and punished humans with divergent languages
while many today work hard to maintain the differences and verity of languages.

Zol. · 03-14-2009, 09:03 PM

liked the episode, finding it to be moving in wondrous ways, nice touches/hints of things not going right in the dollhouse - and Eliza is acting beautifully

Darin (Zol.)

cyclingroo · 03-16-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Holck

In the bible, god toppled the tower
and punished humans with divergent languages
while many today work hard to maintain the differences and verity of languages.

While I love the story of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11), it was not referenced in this episode. The Tower of Babel and the captivity of the tribe of Judah in Babylon (Book of Daniel) were separated by thousands of years.

nickinickerbocker · 03-16-2009, 02:04 AM

Okay there is one point that i have to speak against, i honestly think it is a shame that eliza got her sight back. It was just so obvious. I know it was what made the others follow her and all that i just think it would have been cool to have her save the day as a blind girl. That being said, keeping in mind that Joss has yet to take the lead on the show i did enjoy it.

Also i give you my word my favorite episode is gonig to be the one where (please please please) that usless lump of ego who appears to be seccond in command (again terrible whith names) gets whats comming to him. I can only hope that Joss will understand how much we all hate him and make sure echo takes him out without killing him. Cause lets face it, nobody wants to see echo become a flat out murderer.

TraceyMush · 03-16-2009, 02:09 AM

OK, l can't believe no one has commented on "MAN REACTION" yet!! LMBO!! Finally l see some Joss humour, and it WAS very funny!!! The doctor and Topher were PERFECT!

nickinickerbocker · 03-16-2009, 03:16 AM

Much agreed traceymush. Topher reminds me a great deal of Xander, (i know, duh) he is a bit of a geek who never manages to say the right thing, but you just can't help but love him.

cabri · 03-16-2009, 07:31 AM

I liked the way Topher was so uncomfortable about her wanting to zoom in on the video and then it ended up just being a zoom in on Sierra.

I thought this episode was good.

I think they're being a bit obvious about setting up Mr. Dominic as the evil guy, but they're laying it on so thick he can't last much longer. Ms. DeWitt is getting suspicious... Who will be the more subtle evil guy when he's gone?

I kind of agree about Echo getting her sight back but it did make sense in the circumstances.

Mellie is so much a victim waiting to happen that I'm thinking maybe she's the new evil person when Dominic is gone.

Wouldn't you know that Tim Minear would write an episode about 'wood'!

shadine · 03-16-2009, 07:49 AM

Loved loved looooved the man reaction.!

BUt i'm not to sure bout the second in command.
i mean everybody loathed wesley in the beginning of buffy
im waiting for a surprise here.
maybe a bad surprise as in him selling them all out but i think theres more to the character i mean it would be a waste building hin up getting to know them character and then just killing him....... on the other hand ...it's josses show so........................i think its more likely that the dr. will die or someone else we like.

beenthere · 03-16-2009, 01:47 PM

@cyclingroo

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabri

Mellie is so much a victim waiting to happen that I'm thinking maybe she's the new evil person when Dominic is gone. :rolleyes

I'm almost positive she's another active like Victor.

shadine · 03-16-2009, 01:54 PM

I think that would be to much !that's one trick two times.
didn't you see how she fell in pieces when he did't mind her leaving?
She just jhas to be the good one.I mean someone has to be .
there are a few possibilities regarding her i think such as:
- she gets killed
- she joins the dollhouse herself to help her big love uncover the story (unasked)
- she gets so pissed by the way he ignores her that she does something completely dumm ( allys with the enemy or endangering herself or him) thats my favorite theorie so far... maybe she even gets saved by echo g*

nickinickerbocker · 03-16-2009, 03:16 PM

I wouldn't be supprised to find out she was in something other than the dollhouse. Like maybe Alpha has her set up to watch the cop or something, but i would like to see her remain who we think she is.

Also as for shadine's options i think it will either be a combo of on one and two, one and three or possibly none of the above,

strawberryJAMM · 03-17-2009, 05:08 AM

This was definitely one of my favourite episodes - right up there with Target at about 8.5-9/10.

One thing that bothers me though, is why the "Second in Command" (what the heck is his name? I should know it but I can't dig it out of my memory bank...) killed the cult leader when he was about to kill Echo and then knocked Echo out so she would, presumably, die in the fire. Why not just let the cult leader dude kill her off? Then she'd definitely be dead and out of the way? (Yeah, yeah, I know - it's a TV show and if he'd done that then where would we be? But it still bugged me!!)

:-j(enni)

cabri · 03-17-2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberryJAMM

... (what the heck is his name? I should know it but I can't dig it out of my memory bank...)

See my post above.

beenthere · 03-17-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberryJAMM

Why not just let the cult leader dude kill her off?

A big plothole there. Really makes you wonder if they have someone reading over the script before it get's shot. If fans can spot them that easily...

nickinickerbocker · 03-17-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberryJAMM

This was definitely one of my favourite episodes - right up there with Target at about 8.5-9/10.

One thing that bothers me though, is why the "Second in Command" (what the heck is his name? I should know it but I can't dig it out of my memory bank...) killed the cult leader when he was about to kill Echo and then knocked Echo out so she would, presumably, die in the fire. Why not just let the cult leader dude kill her off? Then she'd definitely be dead and out of the way? (Yeah, yeah, I know - it's a TV show and if he'd done that then where would we be? But it still bugged me!!)

:-j(enni)

Well the way i justify it to myself, Ego. He wanted to be the one who took care of it even though he would be the only one who would ever know. Flimsy i know, but it works for me.

JalsAbortedBaby · 03-18-2009, 04:30 AM

Also im sure Adele would want to find out what happened to her. Or when they examined her body, they would see that the bullets killed her not the fire. that is assuming that the fire was put out in time to have somewhat of a body, instead of just ash. Plus the fact that Adele would also know that the second in command guy went into the church fire help. But that is just my opinion on why he might not have shot her.