Episode 4 - Gray Hour

cabri · **Episode 4 - Gray Hour -** 03-07-2009, 09:03 AM

You know what to do.

strawberryJAMM · 04:50 AM

Overall I liked this episode for plot and development, although there were a few times I felt Eliza was having a little bit of trouble "channeling" Echo while she was in the vault. For me, this was probably a 7/10. (As a comparison "Target" was an 8.5-9/10 ... I'm saving my 10 for something on the same scale as Firefly's "Out of Gas" or "Objects in Space")

In regards to my last thought - sometimes Eliza was Echo pure and simple - like when she was looking at the Picasso, but sometimes the expression on her face when talking with the wounded thief was too ... involved I suppose. The expression on her face came across as too intrigued, as too calculating about what was being said and what was going on. While I suppose children are interested and intrigued sometimes, their thoughts are usually blatantly obvious on their face and sometimes Echo's expression while considering something her wounded associate said was almost inscrutable. It just sort of jarred me to see the Echo personality exhibiting subtle expression when her thoughts are feelings are usually right there, out on the surface.

Other than that, though, I really liked this episode. I liked how the title fit both the subject of the heist (as it was the term for the hour that the security was down) and the situation with Echo-Taffy (you could say she was "down" or "grey" - tabula rasa - for about an hour as well).

I was also very intrigued to see that Topher can, presumably, erase even events that occurred while in the tabula rasa stage. That got me wondering though - shouldn't he be wiping them to completely clear each time, so why would Echo and Sierra think of each other as friends...? Though I suppose they can't be completely blank as they need to know how to talk, how to walk, etc. So they must actually be given sort of a "bootstrap" personality that is mainly blank but includes things like that and could possibly include the idea that "This is your home." "These people are your friends" "This is where you sleep" "This is your routine". Hm... how's that for food for thought?

So I also like how, when Sierra became Taffy, she said exactly the same things that Echo-Taffy had said earlier in the episode (for example, the thing about listening to the client after almost not getting paid and "wear comfortable shoes").

I also thought the actress (whose name, for some reason, is completely escaping me at the moment... oh wait... Deitrich?) managed to give Sierra-Taffy the same general style and attitude as Echo-Taffy had, but there were just enough small differences between them to make it seem very "realistic" -- after all, Sierra has a completely different body shape than Echo so I would expect that even though her body had the same personality it would result in a somewhat different gestalt. I think my favourite line of Sierra-Taffy's was something along the lines of how much time she'd wasted learning to Lap Dance!

Can someone clarify something for me though? At the end, did Echo draw just a simple sad face, or did she draw something that roughly emulated the Picasso painting she saw in the vault? I was distracted for a moment while she was drawing (10 year olds who decide they need a hug will do that to you) and couldn't really tell what she had drawn in the end because of her reflection.

Oh yeah, one more thing: I'm also totally cheesed that Adelle said she would tell Topher all about Alpha but then we didn't get to hear what she had to say! Joss is going to keep us in the dark on this for as long as he can ... it's torture, I tell you. Torture!

:-j(enni)

emlprime · **Tabula Rasa -** 03-07-2009, 06:00 PM

I think the idea that Echo's character is exploring is that they aren't actually Tabula Rasa (pl?). Topher is erasing the memories, but each episode Echo (and possibly Sierra) is picking up something from her assignment. To me, the implication is that there is a separation between memory, and knowledge. There are different parts of the brain. The short term memory, long term memory, and muscle memory (reflex) are all different, but interactive systems.

If you think of it like a sheet of paper, you write on the paper with a pencil. When you erase the paper, even if you get all the graphite off, there's still a grove in the paper where you wrote. If you're careful, you can still see what was written with the graphite gone. If the paper is especially receptive (thick and soft) you can fill it in with new graphite, and the writing will take the same form.

I think that's more or less what's happening with Echo. The line about Michelangelo was intended to let us know that the dolls have something inside them that resonates with the experiences they're picking up. Topher's pack reference was a shout out to instinctive memories.

I'm loving the subtlety and the teasing reveals that Joss is giving us. I for one hope that he holds his restraint and gives us only the tiniest tidbits of information at a time. It's a literary strip tease, and once the story's out, it's over.

shadine · 03-07-2009, 06:45 PM

you could explain the abscence of memories but echo remembering her "friends" by the limbic system (the part in the brain where everything gets connected, so it connects faces and emotions for example)
If someone has amnesia the limbic system is also still recognising certain smells (not with a specifix memory but with a feeling )

beenthere · 03-08-2009, 09:04 AM

Can anyone of you native speakers tell me about "gray hour". I mean, is it a technical term from the security or something? I'd thought of it as "blind spot" or something given the context of the security in the building shut down. Thanks.

cabri · 03-08-2009, 08:53 PM

It's not something in common parlance, if that's what you mean. (At least as far as I know.) It could be used to describe twilight or dawn when visibility is dropping but there are better terms.

emlprime · 03-09-2009, 01:14 AM

She explains it in the episode. The Grey Hour is the time when they are cross-fading one security system into another. It's grey because it's a transition (like moving from black to white) rather than a blackout, which would be bringing the system down and then back up again.

I think the grey is apropos in this case because Echo's grey hour mirrors the security system's.

emlprime · 03-09-2009, 01:18 AM

Shadeline: I agree, that it could be in the limbic system. I think what I'd focus on, however, is not so much the how, as the why. Joss (in most of the commentary I've seen) will always sacrifice flobotnum for the sake of character development. I'd say the question of "Is a personality the sum of memories or is it something other? Is the personality an attribute of a soul, deep structure or synthesis of parts?" Her ability to interact as if the memory is there (when Topher insists that it's gone) seems to imply that either Topher is mistaken (a possibility) or there's something deeper at work.

strawberryJAMM · 03-09-2009, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emlprime

...either Topher is mistaken (a possibility)...

What?! Topher wrong?! IN-conceivable!

cabri · 03-09-2009, 06:58 AM

Ah. I thought the question was about any meaning outside of the show, like do we actually use it in real life.

nickinickerbocker · 03-09-2009, 03:50 PM

My biggest joy with the episode was the mind games they can play with us. Seeing as how we don't actualy know who echo is, we can never be sure if she is a prostitute, a victim, or taffy.

Also i totaly agree with emlprime that on some level there is a part of echo that is remembering little bits of what she picks up on her runs or missions (ya i know niether of those is the word they use but i can't remember it and i didn't pvr the ep that said it)

random side bar, does anybody else think the acctress who plays (insert dollhouse head honcho name here) looks a lot like the actress who played Faith's would be watcher in the season three of BTVS???? The one who was after the glove of something or other. (once upon of time i could of told u the actress name the character name the glove name and the episode name, i MUST re-watch buffy)

TraceyMush · **number 4! -** 03-09-2009, 06:27 PM

l so enjoy having something good to watch! Eliza continues to impress.
l thought the variations of expression in the vault were a result of the stress she was subjected to. At the Dollhouse everything is easy and calm--super mellow.

Now l am really curious about Alpha! HOW can an active possibly do a mind wipe?! And better than Topher can! l have a theory about this.

OK, l have a complaint. Please Joss, make it believable! l can't buy the escape from the vault--round the corner and out through the smoke! Oh and nobody's guarding the tunnel! jeez!
Does anyone else think Serria looks really stupid in her wiped "doll" state?

And yes, l believe the head woman is the evil watcher from Buffy.
Joss rocks!!

cabri · 03-10-2009, 09:21 AM

No, she's not Gwendolyn Post AKA Serena Scott Thomas. Adele Dewitt is played by Olivia Williams, who was the wife in The Sixth Sense, Mrs. Darling in Peter Pan, and Jane Austen in Miss Austen Regrets.

shadine · 03-10-2009, 01:50 PM

To catch up on emleprime thought.
I thin it realy is a rather philosophical question.
Topher represents the world of science in his view theres an equation for a caracter .. but i think joss is getting to the idea whats behind that what is the essence of a person who are you if you never been raised by your parents influenced by your friends talents or failures. So we are pretty much near the concept of what i would call a soul. something thats there when everything else has gone something you cant take away.
This whole idea would also suite josses way of thinking.
I mean hes so obviously trying to find something more some sort of destination eventhough beein atheeist or nihilist and all.

chadward · **foggy art -** 03-12-2009, 06:02 AM

sorry if i missed anyone clearing this up from the first post here, but what was that echo was drawing in the mirror? i know it was probably a face, anyway i have loved every ending of this show, just the way at the very end echo reveals that she has retained something and bam it ends with music. but this is the first one i was like huh? guess if the camera angle had been better or we saw what she was drawing a little more clearly . if i had to guess it was a picasso style face and she is realizing she truly is broken even though she denied that in the vault.

cabri · 03-12-2009, 05:11 PM

As far as what she was drawing, I think that's the consensus. As far as broken, I'm not sure she realizes she's broken, I personally just thought it was an echo in her memory. I don't think she remembers as much as other people think she does.

nickinickerbocker · 03-13-2009, 12:05 AM

I agree, i figure some random bits of memories are sticking with her but they would not have left her mind open enough or clear enough or what have you to understand what those memory fragments are or how to process them.

shadine · 03-13-2009, 12:47 PM

to me it looked like she was drawing the lines of her own face in the mirror but not out of memorie . i think she was simply following her own contures.
(which still would be a sign of selfawareness