Episode 1 - "Ghost" discussion

**gossi** · **Episode 1 - "Ghost" discussion -** 02-13-2009, 11:48 PM

Thoughts? Here!

ActiveDollhouse · 02-14-2009, 01:52 AM

About to watch now! Guess we'll see...

lilbird · 02-14-2009, 02:37 AM

*bounces impatiently while waiting three more hours for the time zones to catch up*

pronerdfighter · 02-14-2009, 03:09 AM

Teeheehee!!!

That...was...awesome!

Seriously, did anyone else see that? It was amazing! Joss Whedon has done it again!

zander77 · **Cut short -** 02-14-2009, 03:20 AM

I was so looking forward to seeing the first episode tonight! Unfortunately, something happened during SCC -- the broadcast froze. As a result, Dollhouse started late, and, about five minutes from the end, at precisely 9 pm central time, the local Fox news station (which sucks, by the way) cut in, cutting off the end of the show! I'm really pissed at Fox right now.

Agent Cooper · 02-14-2009, 04:12 AM

It was okay. They won't start dishing out the "artistic" episodes until the end of the season. Apparently Joss is planning on doing a very eccentric finale, something downright Lynchian. I can't wait.

TraceyMush · **Go Joss -** 02-14-2009, 05:42 AM

l liked it. Was kind of worried l had it built up too much. l was impressed with Elisa - thought she was quite convincing. Lots of characters to explore, maybe hate some of them? Looks like some will definitely be bad guys. l liked the cop! He's hot! Where do l recognize him from?
l can see lots of treads - INTERESTING.
Laughed when l saw little vamp cross screen at the end... grrr...arrd lol. Want to see lots more right now!! l'm thrilled to be here as TV history is being made!

JadeHand · 02-14-2009, 06:09 AM

It was yummy..
hungry for more.

insanegi1966 · 02-14-2009, 06:44 AM

Not that impressed yet, interesting but am not totally sold on the idea.

I was seriously disappointed with the whole "hostage" scenario, HRT 101, 1 shooter per tango when possible, why was there only 1 guy backing Eliza up at the dock, and then there were at least 4 at the house?

C'mon Joss do your homework if you are going to pull this off, otherwise people like me will not take it seriously, and just think that it's a waste of time to watch.

wunderworks · 07:28 AM

This is the formula-punk show. This is the show that says, "See here's that formula show you all know and are bored with, we're stepping it up a notch." Like the steampunk, cyberpunk and original punk this show uses those old cliches and tropes and makes them fresh, builds upon the shoulders of giants.

This show is betting on us being smart tv consumers, it isn't pandering to lowest common denominator. It's smart, but it also has the fast pace, sexy, and fun aspects that every great show dreams of having. Whedon flopped Four of a Kind with this show concept. I'd bet he knows how to win the pot with this hand. As long as Fox doesn't flip the table on him because they don't have the balls to be patient.

I'd really love to see Dushku in an engagement like a pastry chef and then be stumbling through the whole episode because her handler's been hurt. She's stuck as this character who can't do anything but cook pastry while the whole world is blowing up around her and all the "I Know Kung-Fu" memories are locked up in the computer back at the Dollhouse. It'd be really tense and I'd love to see if Dushku can really step up to the plate for a difficult role like that. If she could pull of a hard episode like that then she'd deserve an award.

This show has great potential and I like how Whedon has toned down some of his silly humor, but kept his wit. He could get away with the wry jokes and whatnot in Firefly and Buffy, they were renegades and kids. He cannot get away with that here, even if we like that type of humor, it just isn't appropriate. There are still jokes but there is less Ben Stiller and more Stephen Fry. Which for the tone and themes of this show is very good.

The only thing that bugs me is that I have to wait for each episode each week. I haven't watched a show like that in years. If it keeps up at this level I think I can wait.

wunderworks · 02-14-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insanegi1966

Not that impressed yet, interesting but am not totally sold on the idea.

I was seriously disappointed with the whole "hostage" scenario, HRT 101, 1 shooter per tango when possible, why was there only 1 guy backing Eliza up at the dock, and then there were at least 4 at the house?

C'mon Joss do your homework if you are going to pull this off, otherwise people like me will not take it seriously, and just think that it's a waste of time to watch.

Because the guy backing her up, her handler, while an ex-cop probably wasn't SWAT and also, since he was an ex-cop it means he fucked up somewhere and he's working for the Dollhouse now. IOWs, he's not as smart as he could be. He obviously thinks with his heart and not with his head. He was the one that should've called in back-up, and he didn't. Maybe his boss didn't authorize him to. That prick XO under the CEO looks like he got the job because he was a backstabbing prick, not because he was the smarted cookie.

C'mon, insanegi1966, look at the show closer, there are plenty of reasons why there weren't more shooters, and you never know maybe the lines:

Echo's Handler, "I need at least 3 tactical backups for this situation."
Dickhead XO, "No, you need to do your job, Echo can handle everything."

...were left on the cutting room floor?

I'd bet you have more than a passing familiarity with hostage rescue tactics. Don't you think that after you came out of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade the real Archeaologist behind you was grumbing because that's not exactly how they do it in the field. ;-) But you were entertained by the movie, and the rest of us who aren't HRT experts really enjoyed the scene.

lilbird · 02-14-2009, 07:46 AM

Good points wunderworks. My first impression is positive. TraceyMush, I too was worried I had built up expectations to great to be met by reality. I am happy that wasn't the case.

Lioness · 02-14-2009, 12:05 PM

I enjoyed it. I didn't love it, if it wasn't Joss I might or might not watch it again. Mostly because I've never been that fond of Eliza. But what Joss says it is about is very intriguing and something I do want to see played out.

Coats · 02-14-2009, 04:07 PM

It wasn't until about halfway through the episode that I started getting into it.

I think that they are setting up some interesting things, though, and I'm excited about the potential it has.

I love the way Joss gives background info. and creates strong, believable characters. So many shows don't have that...and if you don't have feelings for the characters, the show won't hold out. I'm looking forward to next episode and learning some more about Echo's background and why *that guy*(I forget his name on the show but he plays Helo on BSG) is specifically seeking her out.

wytchcroft · 02-14-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gossi

Thoughts? Here!

just wanted to say - appreciated you keeping a cool head here and whedonesque, not an easy task right now i bet! power to ya

cabri · 09:01 AM

If I hadn't known it was Joss I would've still liked it enough to watch it next week, so I don't know what all the critics saw.

It was more procedural than I expected and I can't wait to see what Joss does to twist the procedural around.

The ghosty part was cool, I want a t-shirt!

jossfan2 · 02-15-2009, 07:13 PM

I found the first episode uneven, with srong positives and strong negatives. Positives include E. Dushku and the faith we have in Joss talents. Negatives: impossible to accept hostage scenario: how is this formerly kidnapped and abused woman the best choice for hostage negotiator?
I'll definitely be watching next week!

JadeHand · 02-15-2009, 09:31 PM

The persona of the hostage negotiator that was imprinted on/in Echo was an amalgam of various personalities/memories that were in storage or on file at the Dollhouse. It's likely they weren't aware of that aspect of the person they used as part of the persona they gave her.

Many reviews indicate the show drastically improves around episode 5-6. You have to build the runway before you can take off, and I think this episode was a good start. I think I read Joss saying somewhere, "You can't start Buffy with "The Body"."

lilbird · 02-15-2009, 09:46 PM

Absolutely. I think we can all agree there were aspects we might raise an eyebrow at, but there is something there I want to see more of... something that gave me an overall favorable opinion of the show.... something that will make me turn in next week.

Pixel · 02-17-2009, 12:45 AM

With apologies, I'm just going to repost the comments on another board - my feelings haven't changed in the last five minutes. Maybe it's time for my treatment?

While on the one hand I appreciate the "limited commercial interruption" which meant it was longer than the 42 minutes of actual show that US television usually grants us in an hour, I don't think this story warranted it - it was slow, and dragged excessively. This was not a pilot episode to launch a major new show, it was a filler episode.

Which is kind of ironic, as next week we get the actual pilot episode, which hopefully will be a lot stronger. This was the pilot that Fox wanted - lots of info dumps and plot exposition. Next week, I'm hoping we get Whedony goodness - mystery, questions, intrigue, snappy dialogue, twisted relationships, and awesome action.

And more of Tahmoh nekkid and sweaty. Come on, it was worth the whole episode just for that one scene!

The show grew on me as it went on, but I think Fox have messed up again by asking for revisions - time will tell as we see more of the show, but you can't ask a visionary to compromise - you have to let him go his own way, and when Fox asked Joss to put the show together, they should have trusted him to do it his way.

And that was either a guy in the final scene, or a girl with very, very hairy legs.

From a purely production point of view - the Dollhouse set is absolutely amazing. Bigger even than the Wolfram & Hart set, I think, but looks like the same designer. Joss always goes big on the main set - think the library/Sunnydale High/Bronze sets back on Buffy, then the Hyperion and Wolfram & Hart (LA and Rome) on Angel, and of course, Serenity herself. He really likes to set things in a real environment.

Eliza was great, although I don't think this story really stretched her - again, surely you want the pilot to be a showcase for your best stuff, and this didn't feel like it.

Still, looking forwards to Friday - I just hope the US ratings improve.